What's your guys opinion on Ayaka Sasaki's singing voice?
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MM305 said:
But in Japan, their idols seemed to recieve a lot of love and respect for doing ALMOST the exact same thing (at least, from what I have seen, because I don't often see a lot of hatred/criticism for the idols in Japan as /I see from the idols outside of Japn.) I know for some groups (like Momoclo), it's actually more just about bringing happiness than being love icons, but it's still a very similar role: Don't matter much about the singing or dancing, but more on just being cute/sexy to make people happy).
Maybe embracing thse type of artists is more of a cultural thing in Japan than in the West!
I dunno. Maybe it has changed a bit but when I was in Japan for the first time in 2009 a fellow (Japanese) Aya Matsuura fan told me not to send him anything as he didn't want his family to find out that he was an idol fan.
For a long time (and probably even today to a big degree) wotas were men between 25-45 paying through their nose for merchandise associated with young (underage) girls. That's what the idol industry was based upon.
I credit especially BiS and Stardust to change that to the better but whether mainstream Japan really embraces idols I'm not sure of.
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@Mattthecat My point is, the most popular and sucessful idol groups in Japan play a very similar role compared to the Western idols: Don't matter much about the singing or dancing, but more on just being cute/sexy to make people happy. Yet, it seems like those successful Western idols gets more disrespect than the successful Jpop idols.
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I would argue that singing ability is actually pretty important in the west. They need good singers, and despite criticisms have of popular western singers, they are good, if not great, singers. People who criticize their singing and dancing are simply hating to hate, and have very little evidence to support their claims.
The main issue nowdays is that a pretty face with a great singing voice is all there is to a lot of current American music stars. -
@Gakugeeeekai Still, some of these successful Jpop idols' voices must be passable for people to still love them, because I doubt anyone would be a fan with a pretty face with horrific singing abilities.
Take from a guy who also likes Kyary Pamyu Pamyu and Perfume, I can tell you I'm more into MCZ's singing/dancing abilities than those 2, which is why I love MCZ for than them.
But for me to still like KPP and Perfume, their voices and dancing are tolerable enough for me to get into them. -
That's what I believe is the crux of the whole model in Japan. They're not going to bring in someone who truly sings horribly, but they (producers and the consumers) will accept someone who will simply be "good enough". Maybe they will grow to be truly amazing singers, but when a lot of idols start out in their early/mid teens, they have to bank on marketability, charisma, connections and looks, with technical abilities like singing and dancing typically starting at a lower priority from the get go. And in the end, I don't think idols are selling their technical prowess; they're marketing ideals, lifestyles, and recognizability.
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@Lurkette Goes back to what I said when I mentioned about the controversial popularity of successful Western idols (One Direction, JB, Fifth Harmony, etc).
I guess these kind of stars are more embraced and accustomed to a country like Japan, compared to the Western countries. -
Only to an extent, because most Western idols can actually sing. It's just the idea of being an idol (because for all intents and purposes, Western idols function the same as Asian idols, just without some of the restrictions) is considered less valid as a musical career and the Western audience is far more vocal about it. Many Japanese people frown upon idol culture and they feel the same way about it, hence the aggressive differentiation between "idol" and "artist," but they are nowhere near as outspoken in terms of disliking them and their music. Doesn't change that most J-idols are sub-par vocalists.
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@Lurkette I guess it just really comes to what the fans of idols people feels about the idols and why you are fans of them. I'm sure there will be different feelings and reasons on what made these people fans of these acts.
Matter of fact, I might actually post a discussion about that on Momoclo: Why are you a fan of Momoclo? What made you a fan of Momoclo? What do you like most about Momoclo? Etc. -
I'm on a so-so with A-rin's voice, cute at sometimes and obnoxious at others. Though she's improved and that's pretty much what matters there.
I like it when she sings in a deeper tone, it just sounds very beautiful that way. Though Momoclo's popularity mostly comes from dancing and member personalities, singing doesn't matter to them lol. H!P has very interesting choreography (Momosu and Anjurumu) they're mostly professionals and falling apart but I think they became popular through Momosu's formation dance and S/mileage's adorableness, not singing. In America, when I listen to music, some people are very popular, but their voices are HORRIBLE (the people I know anyway) Momoclo and H!P have one difference that makes Momoclo so much BETTER! The lives. Though she's trying her best and A-rin will get much cuter and will sing better. But if she gets rid of the A-rin dayooo~ I'm so done. (I got so carried away o.o) -
I think she's alright. She sometimes sounds pretty nice and sometimes kind of weird, but I don't mind silly or overly-cute sounding idol vocals. I enjoy listening to stuff like Dempagumi or Kotori's solo tracks from Love Live, so my tolerance for that kind of thing is pretty high. :P To be honest though, pretty much no idols, even the ones that are considered better singers, are what I'd consider to be truly good when compared against all the singers out there; because of that, I don't really hold high expectations for idol vocal talent anyway.
Going off on a bit of a tangent, I think vocal ability actually tends to be quite overrated in terms of what makes good music. A lot of bands have been successful without having the best vocalists around, because other factors like overall charisma and quality compositions tend to overshadow weaker vocals. To me, idols' singing is just a part of the musical experience, and it can be a good thing in a way when it does sound really weird or bad. Having sounds that are abrasive to the ears can make a song more interesting, like how harsh vocals in metal can be appealing when they're in the right place. I basically listen to this stuff because I like the compositions (unlike the vocals, I think many idol compositions do stack up well against a lot of my other favourite music in general), so I don't really care what the vocals are like as long as they fit the music. -
"and it can be a good thing in a way when it does sound really weird or bad. Having sounds that are abrasive to the ears can make a song more interesting"
like "Bellring Girls Heart" - there are all members with weak and nasty voices (Anna was but Anna've gone), and for music style they are it's even better often -
I really like her voice. In the beginning I didn't really like hers or Kanako's very much, but they've grown on me A LOT.
Regarding the girl's singing abilities in general; no, they're not the best singers in the world. But they're far, far from being poor singers. They can perform for 3-4 hours with their voices holding up, and with very few mistakes. And if you compare their voices now to their voices in 2011 there's a DRASTIC improvement. I think the most important part why I really like their voices is that they sing songs that fit their voices. Even if they're not the best singers technically or vocally it works in the type of music that they sing. They don't really try to sing stuff that they can't pull off (with the exception of Folkmura sometimes, but that practice and failures there are kind of the whole point). -
To add on from this discussion, I've noticed that despite everything being pointed out here about how MCZ are not high class singers, to how being kawaii will get you far in the idol culture, to how their main goal is to make people happy, you all are still fans of MCZ. Despite all of you acknowledging that MCZ are extremely similar to Wester/Jpop idols (who are apparently frowned upon and seriously disliked) you are all STILL fans of MCZ!
Heck, to be completely honest, even though I'm totally aware that these girls are nowhere near the most talented sngers and dancers compared to the most successful artists that has ever live, I still end up feeling like I'm watching/listening/experiencing one of the greatest phenomenoms that has ever existed in this world!! Yet, I'll end up being unsuccessful in tryng to convince myself or someone else why I have fallen for such "idols" when they are these more talented "artists" to witness, because deep down, I know that this group is not popular for their talents (compared to those successful artists) and are successful because of their ability to make people smile. Which is very imilar to why other Jpop idols and Western idols are successful, but they get frowned upon and criticized because of it.
Anyway, where I want this conversation to go to, is for all you to explain why are you guys fans of MCZ? What do you like most about MCZ? What made you a fan of MCZ despite all the stuff that has been said in this thread? -
Aarin's voice definitely has its place - off the top of my head I can think of Naitemo Iin Dayo - her first solo part near the beginning of the song is perfect for her. Saboten To Ribbon too more recently. There's loads of others but I can't think of them right now cos I'm half asleep.
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